tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post780538242513805613..comments2023-10-31T15:39:09.651+01:00Comments on box elder: We choose our friends?Lucyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09764296105901909328noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-71421622684795025172008-06-15T23:08:00.000+02:002008-06-15T23:08:00.000+02:00Stop by here sometime, http://mooseinthegrass.blog...Stop by here sometime, <BR/><BR/>http://mooseinthegrass.blogspot.com/Zhoenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03515663141425057088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-20135946887378352272008-06-15T16:54:00.000+02:002008-06-15T16:54:00.000+02:00Chris, much matter here! In fact, I don't feel as...Chris, much matter here! <BR/><BR/>In fact, I don't feel as if I really said that much here, but obviously what I did say touched a chord with a number of people, and led them to respond with their own reflections and experiences, which is what the best blogging does, best in the sense of most fruitful, most successful. It is about self-expression but also about communicating. <BR/><BR/>There is no question of your not being worthy or welcome here, (on the other hand there's no obligation to visit or comment either!), I happily receive visits from all sorts, and all ages, from about 22 to about 82, and have come to love that about it. While I accept really I want it to be a crowd-pleaser, and as a public space, I will never be over-boldly intimate or confessional here, nevertheless, the bloggers I know are, I've found, gentle, caring, unjudgemental people, many of whom have been brave enough to share quite difficult things online, and I generally feel this is a fairly safe place. When I first started the very idea that I had anything to say that people might want to hear seemd a bit strange, but one's confidence grows. <BR/><BR/>One of the things you said in your comment which really made me say 'oh yes!', was that actually often we are as interested in the dynamic of a couple as we are about the individuals in it. I'd never quite recognised that before, but of course it's utterly so, and explains a lot!<BR/><BR/>Also the 'enough friends' response, that really we mean 'enough friends like that'! Sounds very cynical but it's true, isn't it? Because actually when someone comes along who's a breath of fresh air we find enough time and affection for them no trouble!<BR/><BR/>I sometimes think the people one befriends living here are a bit like the books one reads, not necessarily what you'd have picked out of a whole library shelf, but as they've come your way, you find they're quite interesting! <BR/><BR/>I think for other kinds of people, their default setting is sociability, they feel restless and miserable if they're not getting enough. I have to make an effort towards it, even with people I really like and/or feel perfectly comfortable with. The other day there was a question of resuming my regular morning coffee with Fi, which had lapsed for a week or two, and I said really I'd just as soon stay at home and write poetry. So, why don't you? was the inevitable response. Two reasons: 1)I'll enjoy it when I get there, and feel cheerful and happy afterwards, and 2)being sociable is 'getting out there', and as such is a justifiable activity which constitutes 'doing something', staying home writng poetry is total self-indulgence which I probably won't feel I can spend a morning on without feeling guilty, so it won't be successful anyway. <BR/><BR/>The people I've 'met' blogging have done a lot to reassure me about the positive possibilities of ageing.<BR/><BR/>I'll stop there for now, but I'm sure we'll continue this anon...Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764296105901909328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-36587584343487059632008-06-15T14:32:00.000+02:002008-06-15T14:32:00.000+02:00Loot this is from Brother Chris! - It's high time ...Loot this is from Brother Chris! - It's high time I commented on your blog. I haven't because I feel its been something of a work of art, beautifully constructed, so that others like me might feel unworthy of it. You have in a way exposed yourself and used your diary (I can see that the blog is less private than a diary inasmuch as it is instantly accessible to more people) to reinforced your persona, your self image, stitching words and pictures together to entertain and delight yourself (somebody said that writing was the most fun thing you could do on your own) as well as your readers and contributors. Its a thing that enables you to examine yourself as well as the ideas that pop up.<BR/>You know that about fifteen years ago I took on board the idea of pilgrimage as a route to self-expression and self examination. I'm still not sure if it helped me find myself or whether it helped my self-esteem, for in my dreams I am constantly afflicted by self-doubt. It's been more the stuff of history, an examination of ones ancestral culture and origins, and I feel I ought to move on into the present. Maybe your blog is helping you do soething I should be doing.<BR/>Your piece on the nature of friendship has prompted this response. It's a fairly brave thing to do as its almost taboo outside of ones own house. I don't know how many of us examine the nature of our friendships in your terms. We hold opinions about them, we need them, sometimes we just let them go for no good reason. Invariably as couples we are puzzled by other couples, how and why they survive, what attracted them to each other, and we might favour one over the other. The point is sometimes the dynamics of their relationship are as interesting as the couples are as individuals, although I suspect we would be slightly offended ourselves if we thought other couples were examining our relationship in the way we do them. The couples we get (or got)to know best might be our mothers and fathers yet most of us don't look to replace them when they're gone, although I'm not surprised if you think youi might have, it's just part of where you fit in to an older family. <BR/>It's the consensus that as daughters Mum demanded more from you than from her sons although I've not been able to work out why, or even if this is normal, or whether its been a reluctance on the part of women of her generation to allow a degree of liberation to daughters in the next. She always knew what was best for all of us and sometimes she was right, but nobody enjoys having their strings pulled and some of us were able to disappear into the sunset on our motorbikes, seeking the gratification of members of the opposite sex who might have resembled our mothers but we didn't notice because we had other things on our minds. <BR/>As an older person (and I think A feels the same) we don't tend to graduate to people older than ourselves, although we have a few older friends, for the reasons you suggest, that they tend to have a more fixed view of the world and a lack of curiosity. The young obviously have more vitality so we like to tap into it, although we might feel slightly about that and fear making prats of ourselves. I'm really pleased when younger people apparently want to befriend me. Apart from the vitality of youth which we crave, we tend to admire creative people and for that reason imagine they will make better friends. It may be the case that they are less likely to hold views that are fixed or bigoted and they may as people simply be more stimulating. Yet how many of us would make creativity a prerequisite for friendship? Mostly we seem to acquire friends in a random or accidental way although I'm sure the impulse to forge friendships changes as you move through life. Childhood friends or old friends are not the same as new friends. Friends through work are not the same as friends made on holiday. Friends in adversity or illness often have a stronger bond. Friends for business purposes are different again. Can we ever have enough friends? Sometimes A and I have been known to say that we have enough friends when probably what we mean is we have enough friends in the same category, which may be the fault of our lifestyle, or just that we're a pair of intolerant old buggers (am I allowed to use this sort of language on your blog?)Our problem might be that we're not active friend makers in that we don't go out looking for them with the purpose of creating a framework which gives our lives deeper meaning, we sometimes get drawn into somebody else's framework when we feel we might prefer to be reading books, having stimulating rather than mundane conversation etc.<BR/>I think one aspect of friendship was demonstrated to us recently when A was in hospital and some of her friends found visiting very much more difficult than others, as if visiting an ill person would somehow rub off on them, sap their vitality. Was this to be taken as a measure of their friendship, or a measure of their aversion to hospitals? Sometimes friendship may be measured by how friends react to extraordinary situations. When couples separate sometimes one may be apportioned blame which justifies terminating a friendship, which may or may not be fair. We can't always see each other through the eyes of our friends, their understanding our our deeper selves might be quite limited, especially if they find our hobbies or other lives a source of mystery or confusion. <BR/>Blog on regardless. Brother Chris.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-49923974451040956702008-06-12T12:53:00.000+02:002008-06-12T12:53:00.000+02:00Perfect reflections, Lucy. Parents are thrust upon...Perfect reflections, Lucy. Parents are thrust upon us, but we can choose our friends. That does not mean they are perfect, but an oyster needs a bit of grit to make a pearl!Avushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16512540148378201058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-34924379188047952452008-06-11T23:40:00.000+02:002008-06-11T23:40:00.000+02:00I also have friends like this who could care less...I also have friends like this who could care less about computers and especially blogging, but they are my age. Friendship is a very strange thing indeed and I have found through out my life that they can change. Friends as those I can learn from as well as cherish for who they are. I change, they change too and they seem to drift off onto their own paths, which is not bad. Others just grow closer. My favorite friends are those who I haven't seen in years and then we get together and it isn't evident that any time has passed. We just pick up where we left off!jzrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05938966640494785871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-30617202802462949002008-06-11T17:13:00.000+02:002008-06-11T17:13:00.000+02:00Elizabeth and Bee, thanks.Elizabeth, what a blesse...Elizabeth and Bee, thanks.<BR/><BR/>Elizabeth, what a blessed and brave soul you are, I'm so sorry you lost your mother, I can't imagine what that was like; what ever gripes I had with or about mine, at that age she was there and the thought of losing her would have been terrible. That you found blessings and comfort with the surrogates says much for them, but even more for you.<BR/><BR/>Bee - yes, it's so true that those peole are restful, even if they're sometimes a little tedious. It's always amused and surprised me how J manages to be both!<BR/><BR/>Only quite recently have I made any attempt to mix and match friends, I used to compartmentalise the people in my life to an almost pathological degree, that was very hard on them and on myself. Even now, I know there are people it would be nice to see again, but I hold off inviting them because I'm not sure how they'd fit into things now... I think some of us are just more sensitive about this, others seem to be able to throw different areas and parts of their lives together without the need to take responsibility for how they get on.Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764296105901909328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-15600493223853635662008-06-11T09:19:00.000+02:002008-06-11T09:19:00.000+02:00Lucy,I've read this post several times over the la...Lucy,<BR/>I've read this post several times over the last couple of days . . . and have so much to say about it that I am tongue-tied.<BR/>First of all, you have a way of describing things that is simple, but also very eloquent and graceful. The paragraph about your mother was such a perfect description of my own mother -- and the feelings that I have about her -- that it left me feeling slightly shaken (but in a good way). I don't fear examining things; at least I think I don't.<BR/><BR/>Like you, I think, I've always had friends who are older than me. I've always had such a variety of quite disparate friends that I feel that I could never have one big party and invite them all. There is simply not enough commonality there. It fascinates me how we form friend-bonds -- and that each friendship brings out a certain aspect of our own personality. Like you, I am very loyal to longterm friends; indeed, I can never bear to let anyone go.<BR/><BR/>Last thought: I think that if you are a "questing" sort of person, always working to figure out your place in life, it is very comforting being around people who don't ponder or fret about such things. (People who don't suffer from "dark night of the soul.") <BR/><BR/>Best wishes to J as she undergoes her treatment.Beehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02375981493145612394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-21014104019559392942008-06-11T00:42:00.000+02:002008-06-11T00:42:00.000+02:00I've had many a surrogate mother/friend in my life...I've had many a surrogate mother/friend in my life. I lost my mom when I was 12. My older sister and I are still very close...we 'took care' of each other for a long time. I had surrogate grandmothers, too. I used to go around the neighborhood "visiting" in the afternoons...playing dominoes and watching baseball games...learning to sew and knit and crochet...WHAT a blessing!!!<BR/>God Bless, EJTElizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07505258364895249347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-65589547603839894652008-06-10T21:10:00.000+02:002008-06-10T21:10:00.000+02:00Helli, thank you!RB - what one learns! I never kne...Helli, thank you!<BR/><BR/>RB - what one learns! I never knew the Kenwood Chef was invented by someone called Ken Wood. I have reacted rather against my mother's penchant for motorised things in the kitchen, and dislike large food processors. I have a Braun multipractic hand held job I find very handy though!<BR/><BR/>Apprentice - yes, she's doing OK, and finding things she can enjoy to replace what she can't do, a trip to the beach instead of a meal, for example. She's more relaxed about the hair loss than she expected, and looks quite elegant in scarves and hats, though she's quite pleased with her wig she doesn't feel the need to wear it all the time. Those brave upbeat older ladies do offer some hope, don't they?<BR/><BR/>Zephyr - the milk came from Jersey/ Guernsey cows,it was lovely in many things but not so good in tea. One usually had to pour off the top part and use the rest separately. The blue tits (like chickadees?0 loved to raid the bottles on the doostep, pecking through the gold foil tops to get the cream. J said an old Guernsey woman delivered the milk to them, they'd have one gold top and two semi-skimmed, and the old lady would always say rather contemptuously 'One bottle of real milk and two of that other stuff!'.Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764296105901909328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-41103834306162545662008-06-10T15:15:00.000+02:002008-06-10T15:15:00.000+02:00That "Channel milk" sounds marvelous!! Like the de...That "Channel milk" sounds marvelous!! Like the delectable stuff i grew up on...we would leave clean gallon jugs on a table inside the dairy farmer's barn and return the next day to pick it up...with it's thick, layer of cream on the top...but Channel milk sounds even richer than ours!...and...since it's blazing hot here today, i'm remembering more about the milk: In our endless summer heat there in the American desert southwest, my mother would put the milk in the freezer until it turned into a slushy, icy treat to be poured over bread (i blogged about that in my foodie blog) or drunk with cookies...Oh! i'm salivating even as i type!!vicki johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05564450760405974595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-85111221239284762402008-06-10T13:54:00.000+02:002008-06-10T13:54:00.000+02:00I'm glad your friend is taking chemo in her stride...I'm glad your friend is taking chemo in her stride. It is good to do nice things when you feel good and to rest up when you don't.<BR/>And to chalk each one off and celbrate being nearer the end of it.<BR/><BR/>I like to idea of surrogate mothers, mine died young and sadly most of the other women of her generation I've met including my MIL have had major issues/problems. But I'm now coming across women in their 70s who are very inspiring, whether it be coping with their bi polar children or looking after their difficult,ill men and yet still managing to fully engaged with life.apprenticehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784785172285984036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-58788833243714288312008-06-10T13:39:00.000+02:002008-06-10T13:39:00.000+02:00I'm a bit late here. What a thought-provoking pos...I'm a bit late here. <BR/><BR/>What a thought-provoking post. I always got on best with my grandparents rather than my parents. My mother and I are very distant these days. I did go through a phase of having a few older friends and I think that was after my grandparents died - a sort of subconcious need for a bit of replacement therapy. I don't anymore.<BR/><BR/>My ex-inlaws lived in the house where Ken Wood invented his Kenwood Chef! I've had a fondness for food mixers ever since!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-29177032284785120052008-06-10T00:51:00.000+02:002008-06-10T00:51:00.000+02:00nice one Dear Loot !nice one Dear Loot !Hellihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16176467075102201640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-89750241649935806182008-06-09T06:53:00.000+02:002008-06-09T06:53:00.000+02:00Ah, thank you people! Goodn't get on last night be...Ah, thank you people! Goodn't get on last night because the blasted internet went down...<BR/><BR/>Leslie - hello! Don't I sound terribly judgemental? Yes, I've certainly started to repeat myself. Sometimes I think it's OK, as when one observes and remarks on the same seasonal phenomena every year, there's a comforting familiarity. When I was younger I would have found it deeply sad and annoying though!<BR/><BR/>Spiral - I only just found out youcame from Jersey. We do choose our friends, of course, but I'm not quite sure how much control we have over it, as other comments here too bear out. There's another less well known saying 'our friends aren't necessarily the people we like the most, there just the ones that got there first'. But once they're there, we have to make what we can of it I suppose, and I have found it often takes me, at least, a long time to establish friendships, so there is an investment there which is valuable in itself.<BR/><BR/>rr - great to see you. I think to some extent for certain kinds of people, the examined life is something you don't have any choice over, so the question is to find the best way to live it. I quite envy the people who really don't have to do it, like our friends, because of course it can be a torment. D says when he wakes in the night going back over his past as old people do, he does so without pain or remorse,quite neutrally, whereas the same experience for my mother was hellish.<BR/>I sometimes think I opt for friendships that offer little challenge, the easy people, for comfort, when I should be prepared to take on more difficult people who may be more rewarding. And then there is the phenomenon of 'couple friends'...<BR/><BR/>ML - thank you for reading!<BR/><BR/>Z - I guess we do, and the acceptance of that comes with maturity, though there's still been times I've buggered up, thinking I can do more to change people, or that I love them more than I can... I like the new portrait, btw, you look like a 19th century novelist or poet!<BR/><BR/>Cat - thanks me dear.<BR/><BR/>Rosie - probably inevitable with marrying much older not having kids and coming here too, that a lot of my friends are older. Also being the child of older parents I think disposes one more to the company of older people,though that's varied through my life. But I've also acquired a few lots of younger friends in the last years who are very important to me, Princeling's mum, my young students... Old friends are a bit like siblings though, in that they've been there almost all along, and are irreplaceable.<BR/><BR/>Hliza - more universals, I think! I suppose I wish I could have done more to look at and improve the relationship while they were still alive, but you go on learning! And it's sometimes a case of finding a balance between being honest and being positive.<BR/><BR/>Isabelle - you make me laugh as ever! I'm already doing the bit about how the world's going down the tubes, changing country just widens one's perspective a bit... I'm glad your mum's still well!Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764296105901909328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-89712730984100388402008-06-09T00:30:00.000+02:002008-06-09T00:30:00.000+02:00Yes, I spend quite a lot of time with my mother, a...Yes, I spend quite a lot of time with my mother, and though she's lovely, and amazingly fit and bright for her age (86) I do find myself mentally compiling lists of things I must try not to do when old, such as to complain about the way the country is going down the tubes and to overreact to minor problems ("I've had another disaster..."). Interesting post.Pam https://www.blogger.com/profile/12641269043817163165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-66766933301594430172008-06-08T21:12:00.000+02:002008-06-08T21:12:00.000+02:00Lucy, when I read this..I feel relief that I'm not...Lucy, when I read this..I feel relief that I'm not the only person in the world who doesn't have perfect parents..or admit not having it. And friends too..HLizahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04501423875033391870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-77960252259264211712008-06-08T19:44:00.000+02:002008-06-08T19:44:00.000+02:00I am told that only children treat friends rather ...I am told that only children treat friends rather like substitute siblings. It is true that I am still in contact with friends I have made from childhood onwards and a very varied lot they are too...warts and all! They all seem to be younger or my age though...No parent substitutes.Perhaps I should advertise.Rosiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12211663940952195703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-75834808779194759722008-06-08T19:04:00.000+02:002008-06-08T19:04:00.000+02:00That's a wonderful, thoughtful post, Lucy. Thanks...That's a wonderful, thoughtful post, Lucy. Thanks for making me think.Catalysthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03804837416104556928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-18240438400216151952008-06-08T17:52:00.000+02:002008-06-08T17:52:00.000+02:00We have to love those we love entire, don't we?We have to love those we love entire, don't we?Zhoenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03515663141425057088noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-8080286676873144142008-06-08T17:20:00.000+02:002008-06-08T17:20:00.000+02:00Lovely, thank you!Lovely, thank you!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-45379420332496446342008-06-08T16:28:00.000+02:002008-06-08T16:28:00.000+02:00Wonderful reflection. Thank you for your insights....Wonderful reflection. Thank you for your insights.<BR/><BR/>I've sometimes felt that "friends" have chosen me and have found it difficult to modulate the relationship to one which does not make me uncomfortable.<BR/><BR/>An examined life makes such things easier, in my experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-44591600993845944682008-06-08T16:15:00.000+02:002008-06-08T16:15:00.000+02:00Ah, as a good Jersey girl myself, I smiled at thos...Ah, as a good Jersey girl myself, I smiled at those globs of fat and stiff milk.<BR/><BR/>Your post has reminded me that our friends are the family we choose. It's an essential of life, even when they drive us bananas.<BR/><BR/>Food for thought, thank you. XJenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08781237143187343971noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37070024.post-4130860114245109052008-06-08T15:48:00.000+02:002008-06-08T15:48:00.000+02:00I enjoyed this so much that I read it twice. I rec...I enjoyed this so much that I read it twice. I recognise many of these traits in myself and my friends, especially the "mental and spiritual laziness giving rise to glibness and conviction as to the rightness of [my] own opinions, and, ... an exasperating tendency to repeat [myself]."Lesleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13498909370147354617noreply@blogger.com